Those are trigger 13 on the P-Bus.

[quote="Bill D"]Now if the run button could just be near my left hand, that would be nice. Maybe a GPI input attached to a big red button near camera 1, could fire off the run button.[/quote] Right next to the producer and director eject buttons, respectively.

Eric, Glad you found it, I knew there was something. I did a game on a 4K in December and all on one emem, I did the replay on, lance trigger to replay off, run and lance trigger to replay on. In theory during the game action after coming back from break this is the only effect. So just have to reach over and hit run, never have to worry about recalling emem after running replay off. This is a great feature, especially on a 4K with no macros, etc. Now if the run button could just be near my left hand, that would be nice. Maybe a GPI input attached to a big red button near camera 1, could fire off the run button. Any EIC's with 4K's, how about it.. :)

never mind, saw the reference to Trigger 10 and tried that - I'm all set!

So I used the #11 trigger on a show for the first time, worked great. (Thanks Bill and all on the board). My question is, do I have to reload the Replay e-mem every time after I'm done with the replay out move? I noticed that when I sent a 'cue' trigger to the FF at the end of the timeline it would cue register 101 (makes sense, since that was the last register that was loaded). Or is there another trigger that will load up register 1 for me instead of 101?

[quote="Scott Dailey"]The Sony 7000 has a mode of operation that calls up registers on the Lance on a 1 to 1 basis with the effect you recall on the switcher ( similar to the GVG) as long as you have DME 3 and 4 activated. It then sends out a play command any time you hit the RUN button for your timelines. It is as limited as it sounds but you can do your basic repaly and transition moves. I believe this was the option they had available before P2 timelines came along. It works the same way if you are using an Abekas dve in conjunction with the Sony. Scott[/quote] Cool, well not really but I guess it works.. thanks for the info. I remember when three of us were getting trained on the 7000 a few years ago. The trainer had jury duty and couldn't make it. We had a book (I think). We sat in front of the switcher looking for the P2 timeline. We sat there for what seems like hours but probably maybe a little less, poking around menus. We called tech support, and we were told to simply 'scroll down' in the timeline, I guess with all the other levels, there wasn't enough room on the page for the P2TL. DUH !! Bill

The Sony 7000 has a mode of operation that calls up registers on the Lance on a 1 to 1 basis with the effect you recall on the switcher ( similar to the GVG) as long as you have DME 3 and 4 activated. It then sends out a play command any time you hit the RUN button for your timelines. It is as limited as it sounds but you can do your basic repaly and transition moves. I believe this was the option they had available before P2 timelines came along. It works the same way if you are using an Abekas dve in conjunction with the Sony. Scott

[quote="Mike Cumbo"]Zach, I use whatever TDC-100 that is on the truck or the client supplies. The times I tried using one timeline to do replay on and off using the #11 trigger to advance the Lance +100 I have had the issues that John has described. I usually get pissed and build two separate timelines. I do the away shows, usually, so I get whatever truck the client books. Some shows are great, Kalypso and a Spotbox, others a Sony 7000 without P2TL and a Lance. BTW, Bill, when I have had issues with channel A not triggering I have had A and B using the same address.[/quote] A and B are ganged in Lance or you have them not ganged so that you can use them in other ways?, just curious.. Also what in the world do you do with a sony 7K without P2TL? GPI's or a manual play, or run like hell :) Bill

Zach, I use whatever TDC-100 that is on the truck or the client supplies. The times I tried using one timeline to do replay on and off using the #11 trigger to advance the Lance +100 I have had the issues that John has described. I usually get pissed and build two separate timelines. I do the away shows, usually, so I get whatever truck the client books. Some shows are great, Kalypso and a Spotbox, others a Sony 7000 without P2TL and a Lance. BTW, Bill, when I have had issues with channel A not triggering I have had A and B using the same address.

[quote="balloonpilot"]One other question, though... When I build my timelines, I'm putting both the in (001) and out (101) moves onto the same timeline with a #11 trigger to load the out move. I'm finding that if you don't leave about a second of dead time in the timeline before you fire the #0 trigger to run the out move, it doesn't fire the A channel of the FF. Fires B fine but there seems to be some delay needed for it to compile properly. I even put a pause on the KF where I fired the #11 and then 1 frame later the #0 fire but that didn't work. I needed to put in a full 30 frames between the #11 and the #0 triggers in order for it to work properly. BTW, switchers were a 3k and a 4k. Thoughts? John Phillips[/quote] It is a good idea to not have any P-bus or GPI triggers 'ON' for the keyframe that is paused. When you hit run again after the pause it will send that P-bus trigger again. It could be that it is reloading the clip (a second time) and then trying to play it 1 frame later so there may be some inconsistent timing results. Are you ganging A and B channels through Lance? Or do you have them as seperate P-bus address. Not sure why B channel fires ok. Try adding a dummy keyframe on your DPM level for P-bus that has no triggers. Before the pause, hit your trigger 11 to load next clip. Then it will pause with no triggers and 1 frame later fire off the play.. This pause quirk happens on 4K/3K's, not sure about Kalypso Bill

Hi Mike, I am a little confused. Don't you use the updated version of Lance? And if so aren't GPI loopbacks obsolete? And Macros on the Kalypso - same thing. Some of my shows use almost all macros on other stuff, I can't waste them on Replay recues. I use the new triggers on Lance Version 3.0 that recall bank 100's and even 200's (10, 11 & 12). Any one else using GPI loopbacks still? If so why? One time line does all! (Thanks Bill) Then I build an out move on EMEM 2 just for emergencies and coming out of commercials.

John, what you describe is why I will use a GPI loopback, if available, on a 3k/4k or macros on a Kalypso if I have the time to build get them set up. If it is a one day set, shoot strike with little time I will put replay in at #1 and the out move at #2. My brain is just programmed like that.

Hey all, thanks for the help. My last two shows with the FF/Lance have gone really well (apologies to Rose at NESN for my first two shows with the damn thing). I got a couple of trigger number tips from Zach here in Edmonton last week too that helped. One other question, though... When I build my timelines, I'm putting both the in (001) and out (101) moves onto the same timeline with a #11 trigger to load the out move. I'm finding that if you don't leave about a second of dead time in the timeline before you fire the #0 trigger to run the out move, it doesn't fire the A channel of the FF. Fires B fine but there seems to be some delay needed for it to compile properly. I even put a pause on the KF where I fired the #11 and then 1 frame later the #0 fire but that didn't work. I needed to put in a full 30 frames between the #11 and the #0 triggers in order for it to work properly. BTW, switchers were a 3k and a 4k. Thoughts? John Phillips

My issue was the same as Steve's. Same drives, same fast forward, same truck. Double-checked the TC to drop frame. But it wasn't a consistent amount each time...some cues were 5 frames, some were 2 seconds...but it didn't get worse as I ran deeper into the drive; just seemed arbitrary. Not that it mattered, since Production walked in with a new element reel anyways...halfway through the season. Ha!!!!!

Rick, I've seen this before- only on fast forwards. I've noticed a lot of problems with the timecode inputs into them. Sometimes the input drops out and for some reason it makes the FFW slip and it won't relock to the incoming TC. I've never had TC slip issues on any other DDR. Mike Tiffee

Hi Steve: Thanks for the reply.... the funny thing is some registers always came up correctly and some drifted - I really never looked into it and didn't really think about which was the quilty party. I seem to agree with you that it most probably is the FAST FORWARD. But no matter how you looked at it, it still saves one a lot of time, but the few frames it was off it certainly wasn't worth killing myself over. Happy Holidays & New Year! Rick.

Rick, It's a Fast Forward issue, not a Lance issue. During my CFB season, I had the same truck...same drives...same Lance cues. After 4 or 5 weeks of everything working perfectly, all of the sudden, one ESU day, the timecodes were off by 2 or 3 frames. I un-selected, then re-seleced the correct TC format, and rebooted a few times. After several rounds of this, the timecodes magically came up correctly. Oh well, what do you want from a $12k DDR? :-) By the way, even though this is a FF issue, Bill is a smart guy who's already addressed this. The new version of Lance TDC firmware (3.0) does let you slip every single cuepoint by a specified amount. So, if your cues are coming up a few frames (or a few secods) off, just use the Register Offset function, which adds or subtracts a contstant from every cue point. Happy holidays to all.

Jeremy: That happens sometimes from truck to truck for some reason. Maybe because of cable length who knows, but I agree, numbers are numbeers. I have the same on my FOX MLB shows as I travel my own FF Drives which I maintain but I use Cueman to load my cue points. It's not that it's slipping, but it does vary from truck to truck and depending on the register and locations some effects move several frames .... at least it gets you in the ball park - no pun intended. It is the reason why the Miami Heat Broadcast team travel, hook up and use there own Fast Forward and Lance Controller on their shows - they just had too many problems from truck to truck and this way they were insured that the cues points would be accurate. Maybe this is something Bill Lance can address if he is lurking around. Happy Holiday to everyone. Cheers, Rick.

Check which time code the Fast Forward is reading non-drop or drop frame. If you recorded your cue points with the Fast Forward set to drop frame and you are reading the same cue points in non-drop some will be right on some will be off.

Speaking of the Fast Forward, I have a query that I already submitted to Steve this afternoon. Using a 4k/FF w/ Lance, I have been saving my cues via Cue Manager. All has been well for the past 2 months or so. Today, I load my registers. When I call up an effect, the Lance cues to the correct timecode; however, the actual "physical" spot on the disk seems to have slipped. Some registers were right on, others were off anywhere from 5 frames to 2 seconds. Anybody else ever seen this?

I don't know...seems to me the quality of the animations have more to do with how "classy" the show looks. Straight out of the box, the Fast Forward (or SpotBox, for that matter) doesn't seem to add anything to a show. It has to be loaded with something. :-)

you said it Mike! if it was up to me, i wouldn't do a show without a spotbox. ; )

[quote="tandrews"]For my money, the fast forward is the best device made in recent history! It makes the show "classier" and takes away some hidious DVE moves that were well past their time![/quote] Perhaps you should edit your post to say that DDRs have made shows better. The Fast Forward... in many cases lacks durability that a truly great product would have.

For my money, the fast forward is the best device made in recent history! It makes the show "classier" and takes away some hidious DVE moves that were well past their time!

No device number for CPL. Aha! A clue methinks to clearup meconfusion. John Phillips

[quote="balloonpilot"]Hi there... OK, thanks for the explanation, Bill. It does answer a few questions and I'm sure when I actually sit down with a 3k/4k or Kalypso it will all become krystal clear. (That was a little TD humor there... get it? Krystal? OK, very little - moving right along...) One last thing, though, if the DVEous is on CPL where exactly do I assign the address# to it? Does the "address" number corresponde to the "device" number in CPL? John Phillips The important thing to note here is that I've managed (however small) to retain my sense of humor after the last games I did trying to get this damn thing to work properly.[/quote] There is no CPL address. You can only have CPL to one device. So that switcher port (A-1 maybe), goes right to the DVEous. The P-bus port can be Y'd to go to multiple devices, which is why you have addresses for P-bus. good luck and keep laughing.. Bill

Hey one more thing regarding the Fast Forward... WHEN DID THEY MAKE THE TD A FREAKIN' VTR OPERATOR?????* John Phillips *Bitter and twisted due to very bad show recently. God, I'm getting too old for this!

Hi there... OK, thanks for the explanation, Bill. It does answer a few questions and I'm sure when I actually sit down with a 3k/4k or Kalypso it will all become krystal clear. (That was a little TD humor there... get it? Krystal? OK, very little - moving right along...) One last thing, though, if the DVEous is on CPL where exactly do I assign the address# to it? Does the "address" number corresponde to the "device" number in CPL? John Phillips The important thing to note here is that I've managed (however small) to retain my sense of humor after the last games I did trying to get this damn thing to work properly.

That post from Bill in this thread should go straight into tdhelp.com, if you ask me. Not that anyone did.

I don't know if you need it, but the guides at have helped me wrap my head around P-Bus.

Great tutorial, Bill! John, I would highly suggest CPL protocol for your DVEous You certainly can PBus both the Lance (FF) and DVEous, but it's so much nicer (and in so many ways EASIER) to run the DVEous in CPL. Bill explained it better than I ever could, but the way CPL was first explained to me was that CPL doesn't "trigger" the DVE, rather it jogs the DVEous effect along the switcher's timeline. If, for example, you have a timeline effect that triggers the FF first, then DVEous let's say 5 frames later, simply go into your DVEous effect's timeline and delay the start of the DVE TL by 5 frames, then re-save it. Easy peasy! John

nice explanation bill. ; )

[quote="balloonpilot"]Hi all... Firstly, forgive my ignorance on this, but I don't TD regularly anymore and I've only had cursory brushes with the deep setup details on this topic (the most recent event was quite problematic to put it mildly!). At any rate, I'm a bit confused in the process of integrating a Fast Forward/Lance and a DVEous simultaneously in the same timeline. From what I've been able to discern, it looks like I have to P-Bus control the FF. I could P-Bus control the DVEous as well if I wish as long as the device numbers don't conflict. Correct? If I read the manuals right, the best way I'm thinking is to put a dummy 1fm keyframe a the start of the timeline so that the FF recalls the clip and then add the correct trigger to roll it on the second keyframe. Then turn that device off altogether for the remainder of the keyframes in the TL. Correct? The problem I ran into last weekend was that although I got the FF to work reasonably correctly, I could not get the DVEous to recall it's moves. I had to recall them manually. Once I did that, they would run in the timeline, they just wouldn't recall at all. Is it possible there was a device conflict here? Do you assign a device number for CPL? I couldn't find anything in the menus for this and the manuals seem to be somewhat vague on the topic. Heeeeelllp! I've got four hockey games between now and the beginning of January to figure this out for. John Phillips Edmonton, Alberta, Canada[/quote] John was this on a 4K/3K or Kalypso? This is 4K/3K, but except for the setup, same idea.. Fast forward (lance, dnf) would get lets say address 1, dveous address 2 On a 4K, under emem/periph devices, turn on device 1 and 2. Learn emem 0-1. This will now learn the dveous effect currently recalled, and if using a lance with p-bus learn enabled, will learn the inpoint you currently have recalled on fast forward into cue 01. These device on's can stay on or off throughout timeline. They are only looked at for the initial emem recall (emem header info). Which is the first keyframe. Before you build anything, call up another dveous effect and recall the emem, if it doesn't recall the dveous effect check the following: Depending on DVEous software, you cannot have P-bus recall DVEous effects, beyond switcher bank 3, (must use emems 00-39), and even within those emems, it will not recall DVEous effects beyond effect 60ish... 2nd keyframe would be your play and or run triggers (if using P-bus, would have one for each DVE and FFV). Ideally use CPL. On a 4K, this is setup in config menu/extern if/ dpm setup. Select device 1, and put DPM type to CPL. I would also map auxes that feed DVEous (aux 1-4 typically) to Device 2. Same menu as above but go into DPM map auxes. I usually set Device 1 to no auxes, and device 2 to auxes 1-4. Now when you build the effect, DPM 1 level is for DVEous effects and timeline. DPM 2 is for aux feeds. Usually I use DPM 4 for P-bus. Change this under same as above but got into ext if/ then periph IF. When you build your DVEous timelines, just match your DPM 1 keyframes to match the DVEous timeline. There is no 'run' trigger. So if the first part of the DVEous effect is 1.20 seconds to the end or first pause, insert a DPM 1 keyframe that is the same length in duration. Even if you have 4 keyframes to that first pause or to the end of the DVE effect, you only need one DPM 1 keyframe to get you there. Any pauses on the DVEous will not be seen by CPL, must put a pause on DPM 1, or other enabled switcher level. Some trucks tell you with a label on the DVEous which port is hooked up to which. They can be different on different trucks. Safe bet turn both aux and editor ports to whatever you want to use. On DVEous in remote enable menu select aux, and turn soft knob to CPL, 38400 baud, parity odd, aux config 1,2,3,4 P-bus use periph, 38400 Baud, parity odd (or match what is set in switcher), select address to what you choose to match what you will use in switcher. Long... but hope it helps, all very confusing, wish there was documentation on it 10 years ago when I learned it. Bill