Thanks, guys, for the kind words about the CD. While I did the bulk of the design work on it, pretty much all of the SONY trainers had some hand in reviewing and making suggestions. Two other disclaimers: (1) I did the CD on a "work-for-hire" basis, meaning that SONY now owns it. My suggestion that the CD could be helpful to some is therefore not based on me getting any cut of the sales...I honestly think that you can never get too much training. (2) No TD's were harmed in the making of the CD.

Yes Bob did the training CD. Glenn Hill from Sony had seen another training CD Bob had done, and immediately knew he ws the one for the job. I believe that there is 2 days on-site training is included with the switcher, with 2 more days available as an additional option.

I took the on-site day of show self-training program for the 8000. Since that training program left me with more questions, I also go the CD. It's a great reference.

[quote="Bob Ennis"]As someone who has done factory training for both GVG and SONY...[/quote] I believe I am currently going through that CD, and WOW!! What a huge help. As a News TD who is going from a GVG 300 with K-Scope (Yes, you read that correctly!), to an MVS-8000, the "new breed" is totally foreign to us. Heck, even the GVG 3000 would still be foreign. Ha-Ha. Anyway, if this is the same CD, it is extremely helpful for guys like me. We MIGHT be getting actual on-site Sony training after the first of the year. Haven't head back on that yet. BTW...I'll probably post this under antother thread, but I believe it fits here too. I truly take my hat off to Bob (credited as designer and writer of that CD), and ALL the others who take an immense amount of time compiling material for us. Creating the User Manual, Wow! Also, I want to appreciate and say a big thank you in advance for all of the help & feedback I'll be receiveing in the near future as we dive into this switcher.

Bob, While many of us will never use all of the features and capabilities of the 8000, I've seen video of you punching Jeopardy, and discussed many of the unique approaches that your shows requires with Scott McQuaid. While "no TD anywhere" may use 100% of the switcher's capability, I got the feeling that you use 99.95%. Also taking into account your Grass Valley experience, I can't imagine anyone more qualified to evaluate the significance of the 'factory training'. Your technical achievement is inspiring!

As someone who has done factory training for both GVG and SONY, I know that GVG used to charge about $2400 for a 3-day course, and up to $4000+ for a 5-day Advanced course at the factory site. If you want an on-site factory trainer to come to you, be prepared to pay over $1500 per day. I don't know what SONY has been charging the customer (if anything) for the training gigs that I have done, but I've gotten paid for doing the training, so the money has to be coming from somewhere. For both manufacturer's factory-authorized courses, I've never heard anyone say that they didn't get their money's worth. Yes, it's true that you can teach yourself either switcher (8000 or Kalypso), but the factory courses offer "inside info" and tips & tricks that either came from the instructor's experience or (more recently) the experience of previous students. Given time, you'll learn these things on your own (maybe), or perhaps you'll find another TD who is self-assured enough to be willing to share their knowledge without the fear that you're after their job. But I would offer that no TD ANYWHERE either uses a full 100% of the features of their switcher or is an absolute expert on 100% of all of their switcher's features - we all become experts on & excel on whatever parts of the switcher we use to make our particular show work. So our fellow TD's may not always be the best resource for some "back door" technique that's unique to our personal application...the better factory courses tend to go over EVERYTHING - whether or not you will ever use it. So what I'm trying to offer in all of this is the opinion that while many of us don't see a need for a factory course or a course-on-CD, there ARE those who can benefit from it. I've had a lot of "experts" come to my classes with the attitude of "there's nothing new that you can show me" only to walk away with an appreciation of what they DIDN'T know. If you consider the cost of the factory courses (as mentioned above), then purchasing a CD that might possibly help you with your long-term career by explaining everything there is to know about the switcher for roughly the same amount of money as a new version of Microsoft Vista may be a good investment...but that's a personal decision for each of us - hey, you know that it's a job-related tax write-off. :) As to the question of a factory placement list, that's a whole other debate.

I just did the 2 day training program this week. It was very comprehensive starting with a complete board and input setup, then a very detailed description of all the switcher functions. Macros, MP and MP2, linking, frame store animation, DME, chroma keyers, clean feeds, wings for 4/3 formats, device control, flexi pad, shotbox, and even the new jog pad. I was very impressed having worked on GVGs and the Sony 7000, it was a very powerful switcher. I really likes the new MP2 (AKA GVG double take). Incredibly powerful and versatile. We also spent a lot of time creating effects, macros, and exploring things that suited our current shows and issues. For free training it was really excellent, even the lunches were great. The certified program is a little pricey but includes all the manuals, and a complete training CD that addresses every menu, function, and feature of the switcher. Getting your name on the list after being certified, may or may not be helpful in getting a job. But getting the CD alone for $300 still might be worth it just for the knowledge you would get in being able to work with this great switcher.

I agree that $300 is a little steep, but the information is presented in a way that makes the GVG>Sony transition pretty easy. If you knew how many times I've needed a Sony trained TD and couldn't find one, you would know how good of an investment it is. Anyways, just because you are certified by a website doesn't mean you are qualified to work on a live truck. There has to be an interview process by the crewers. Drop me an email if you'd like to put your name on our Sony database...bjorne@ldmworldwide.com.

[quote="Rick Tugman"]Sorry to have responsed here in the Grass Valley forum -- the original post probably should have been in the SONY forum.[/quote] Whoops, your're right Rick, didn't catch it, too much to do getting ready for NAB. It's been moved. Thanks, John

[quote="mikeS"]Anytime you see a "career opportunity" that has an "intial fee" (usually around $300) you want to steer clear. Other examples include real estate audio tapes, modelling agencies, work from home, or Amway. I'm sure you can make money at any of them. I don't think you need to pay the $300. I also envision conversations between crewers and production crews. crewer: "I found a TD." director: "I've never heard of him." crewer: "He's on the Sony list!" director: (insert punchline) Established TDs frankly don't need to pay money to get work. So it's new guys who will think this might be a good idea. And I can tell you right now, live show experience will get you a lot farther that switcher certification. And since you're not going to see the Sony 8k/9k on a small show anyway, don't waste your money. When you get to the level where you're being asked if can work on a Sony, you can sign up for the free training listed above. And the real telling point is, why aren't other companies coming up with "TD lists." It's because they don't have to. I remember when NMT told everyone they'd better start learning the DD35. Neither of them are much in evidence anymore. Nothing against Sony. I can work the Sony but choose not to because I see them so rarely, it slows me down trying to remember all the Sony tricks. Sony needs market share, but I'm not going to pay for them to get it.[/quote] I agree with you here, I wouldn't pay for such a program, what I ment (sorry i wasn't clear) Is there a web site/manual/ some other learning tool I can use to translate something I would do on a Kalypso to a Sony. I've never been on a sony before and been working with a kalypso and other grass products for a few years now. I've turned down a few jobs because there was a 8000 in house or truck and didn't want to get over my head having never used one before.

Anytime you see a "career opportunity" that has an "intial fee" (usually around $300) you want to steer clear. Other examples include real estate audio tapes, modelling agencies, work from home, or Amway. I'm sure you can make money at any of them. I don't think you need to pay the $300. I also envision conversations between crewers and production crews. crewer: "I found a TD." director: "I've never heard of him." crewer: "He's on the Sony list!" director: (insert punchline) Established TDs frankly don't need to pay money to get work. So it's new guys who will think this might be a good idea. And I can tell you right now, live show experience will get you a lot farther that switcher certification. And since you're not going to see the Sony 8k/9k on a small show anyway, don't waste your money. When you get to the level where you're being asked if can work on a Sony, you can sign up for the free training listed above. And the real telling point is, why aren't other companies coming up with "TD lists." It's because they don't have to. I remember when NMT told everyone they'd better start learning the DD35. Neither of them are much in evidence anymore. Nothing against Sony. I can work the Sony but choose not to because I see them so rarely, it slows me down trying to remember all the Sony tricks. Sony needs market share, but I'm not going to pay for them to get it.

[quote="Bjorn Estlund"]I met with Glenn Hill, a Sony principal engineer, at NAB and they have some very exciting training oppurtunities. The latest is an online training application that basically takes you through the differences between GVG and Sony. I think it's around $300, and it also gives you the certification test. The kicker is that after the test, they are creating a database that will be available to crewers, and acts as a job placement program.[/quote] IS THERE ANYWHERE ONLINE WHERE THIS PROGRAM IS AVAILABLE?

So we have to pay SONY for their certification to have our name put on a list that will be given to crewers? Did I understand that correctly! What about the people who already know the SONY ... true they are implementing new features, but there are plenty of qualified operators who don't need to take a full course who are considered certified. Sorry to have responded here in the Grass Valley forum -- the original post probably should have been in the SONY forum.

I met with Glenn Hill, a Sony principal engineer, at NAB and they have some very exciting training oppurtunities. The latest is an online training application that basically takes you through the differences between GVG and Sony. I think it's around $300, and it also gives you the certification test. The kicker is that after the test, they are creating a database that will be available to crewers, and acts as a job placement program.

Tom, the pace of the session depends on how well the trainees grasp the concepts, really. Our class in Altanta got into many intricate functions on the first day because we blew through the basics. It all depends on how quickly the class catches on. Our class was able to spend half of the second day just building intricate effects as we would for shows including multi-channel DDR clipping from the panel and control, macros, DME effects, etc. If nothing else you'll definitely get a great introduction to the switcher and will certainly be able to walk into a truck and build a show. Make sure to take a Geek Stick with you to save some basic parameters - give yourself a clean slate to start from when you see the switcher again. jh

It will be a full nuts and bolts session. I forget who the TD is that will be doing the training. It is free and is a two day training session that will last for 8 hours each day. A Continental breakfast and lunch will be available, compliments of Sony. Space is limited to 5 people per session and is on a "first come-first served" basis. Please contact Sue to confirm your spot if interested. We have 8 signed up, but have room for 2 more.

Got any details about the class? I'm seeing if I can get a few people together for it. How indepth is it? Is it just an overview/demo kind of thing, or do you really get into the nuts and olts of it all?

DC is scheduled for May 23/24 & May 25/26 near IAD. We need 4 more people to sign up to make it happen. Please contact Sue to sign up. Free 2 day sessions w/lunch provided. Class size is 4.

the next one is in may (i think the classes are filled) they try to keep them small. as in the previous post contact sue hanson she can set you up. I believe that if you also have at least 8 people they can bring the classes to you (i am not 100% sure of this but it seemed that way when i was inquiring about the classes). I tried this but couldn't come up with enough people interest in our market.

Anyone know of any of these free classes happening anywhere soon?

Hey Dave - you were actually able to register? It kept kicking me out ... It is a very powerful piece of machinery! John