Having been trained on and having done a bunch of sports stuff on the 7350, I don't have any time on the 8k. Not having been trained on on the Kalypso and also having done a bunch of sports stuff on the Kalypso they both have good and bad points. Where I absolutely love the Sony system is their link between the DME and the switcher. They finally got it right. GVG still uses what I feel is essentially a hybrid band-aid on top of the ancient dumb GPI triggers. I find it somewhat klunky and not well engineered in the way the DVE and the switcher link to each other. The Sony and it's companion DME integrate with each other virtually seamlessly. That said, A GVG is a GVG and although Sony does things a bit differently on the switcher panel, sometimes just relying on the "feel" of the board helps get you through difficult situations. The Kalypso certainly still feels like a GVG. My thoughts after being on a Kalypso cold the first time out with no training? "It was like someone gave me the keys to the Porsche for the night." :) John Phillips

I want to talk a little about the Zodiak and share some thoughts of someone who works within a very large station group and who is also a professional freelance TD on the side. This is only a truthful, professional opinion of one production manager/professional operator based on my experiences and the experiences of my colleagues who are also working with Zodiak. Many small trucks and small-market stations went with Zodiak just a few short years ago because it was a drastic improvement when compared to 300s / 3000s and other older switchers that were dying slow deaths. When compared to a full blown Kalypso, the Zodiak was an affordable solution given the information available at the time. The biggest problem with Zodiak is that a plan for growth beyond 16:9 digital never materialized which, ultimately, will result in forced obsolescence. What are small market stations to do? From a business perspective do you imagine these stations will re-invest in T/GV's latest and greatest and hope that it won't be obsolete in three or four years? These stations cannot afford that kind of gamble. Some (myself included) have suffered catestrophic Zodiak failures over the last few years that have held live shows hostage. The imported circuit boards that run the switcher are, in my opinion, flawed and have been problematic for us for years. And the lack of qualified technical support during times of critical failure has been infuriating. The most recent incident occurred just a few weeks ago when the Synch board died and our operation was taken completely offline during a live show. T/GV Tech support was more focused on whether or not our service contract was up to date than helping us resolve the issue. (By the way, the T/GV rep insisted that our contract had expired when not only were we current, we still had over a year of covered support remaining). On top of that, given all of the parameters of the problem, the agent had no idea what our core issue could possibly be. It was myself and my engineering team that ultimately located the issue (Synch board) and resolved it by removing the board and replacing it with a new board (we bought every spare Zodiak board imaginable and have them in house because, since installation in 2002, we have suffered serious board failures in every single board the Zodiak employs. Four out of five of the failures have taken us off the air.) I can tell you that in the eyes of many local stations, T/GV made a huge mistake by not growing Zodiak into what the "Kayak" is becomming. In my experience local stations have little problem paying to add hardware to an existing product to allow it to operate in another format (ala HD). But a company cannot expect stations to remain loyal when they feel like they're being forced into buying a completely new system, especially when only three years have passed since their current system was put online. Add to that technical support that, in my opinion and in the opinion of many others, is not of the calibur of the former Grass Valley and you'll see why many current Zodiak users and longtime GV clients are looking elsewhere for their HD solution. John

Editor's note: I should have done this when this thread started, sorry. I moved it to the proper place, the TD forum. -John

[quote="Mike Cumbo"][quote="Rick Edwards"]I caught a look at the new MTV Entertainment truck and the new NBC Sunday Football truck. These have to be two most impressive trucks I have seen, and they both have 8000A's. RE[/quote] I also am a little angry with Sony in that they decided to revise/upgrade some electronics, the 8000A version The 8000A can do some things an original 8000 can not do unless the frame is replaced. Nice way to support the early buyers of your gear guys.... Bottom line, who can cupport you the best?[/quote] Now that isn't fair.... You mean like the Kalypso vs the Kalypso DUO. Completely different Transform Engines and you could not put the new ones into the old system. For that matter, you had to change the entire Kalypso chassis out when you wanted to go HD. At least on the original 8000 it was just a board swap (now the 8000A can be software upgraded to HD). The same could be said about GVG -- err -- Thomson. Only a couple of years after releasing Zodiak they silently killed the product and replaced it with something compeltely imcompatible and quite different to use (Kayak). At least the 8000 and 8000A are effects compatible and operate exactly the same. What about the few trucks that have Zodiaks and now they cannot expand their fleet with the same switcher? So would you have been still upset at Sony if instead of the 8000A they had called it the 9000 and called it an entirely new switcher? I mean GVG would not have let you upgrade from a 4000 to a Kalypso. Technology changes. Eelectronics change and there are many times you cannot upgrade. That would be like buying a motherboard and CPU for a PC two years ago then being pissed at the manufacturer that you needed to buy new memory and a new graphics card when you upgrade MB and CPU becuase the spec changes from time to time. It happens. RE

[quote="Mike Cumbo"]NCP 9, the former Juntunen "Bat3"[/quote] So that's where that truck ended up. It's a good truck, I hope they're happy with it. Last I'd heard nobody wanted it because of the switcher, and Mobile TV Group, which bought the other two Juntunen units, didn't want it because it would be too hard to make into a dual truck. Sad thing about the trucks MTVG bought is that they used to be able to pull off some suprisingly big shows for straight trucks, but MTVG has stripped them down to the point where I wouldn't want to try much more than a regional college hockey or basketball game out of them now.

[quote="Rick Edwards"]I caught a look at the new MTV Entertainment truck and the new NBC Sunday Football truck. These have to be two most impressive trucks I have seen, and they both have 8000A's. RE[/quote] Rick, I could counter and mention both the new ESPN and Fox trucks, they have Kalypso's as well as NCP's newest HD truck. Plus, I know of two trucks that have either had Sony 8000's replaced by Kalypso's or they will be replaced. (Corplex HD and NCP 9, the former Juntuned "Bat3".) Back to the original thread... First question, does anyone have a Kahuna in a truck anywhere? Gilpin, do you have your own TD's or do you use freelancers? Are you willing to pay people to learn a switcher? I have used both and both are good and have their points. I feel more comfortable walking into a truck and seeing a Kalypso because it is more logical to me. I also am a little angry with Sony in that they decided to revise/upgrade some electronics, the 8000A version The 8000A can do some things an original 8000 can not do unless the frame is replaced. Nice way to support the early buyers of your gear guys.... Bottom line, who can cupport you the best?

[quote="EricG"]The 8000 is great, but does anyone else share the opinion that its slightly more convoluted menus make it tougher to build shit on the fly than on a Kalypso?[/quote] I think the menus are different, but not any more convoluted than the Kalypsos- they're certainly much faster! I don't feel like any switcher is any faster during setup or building things on the fly. They all take longer to do some things and are quicker at others. Being able to copy and edit macros on the Sony and DD is a big timesaver for me. Keyframe based switching is like, so 90's. :-) Tiffee

I must be living in a cave, cause I hadn't heard any of that. Huge mistake going with the Kayak side of the house vs. the Kalypso/Zodiac... the two aren't even close when it comes to ease of use and feature set... or so it seems to me. The 8000 is great, but does anyone else share the opinion that its slightly more convoluted menus make it tougher to build shit on the fly than on a Kalypso?

I also don't know where you are but I also perfer the Sony. I think in the industry, as it sits now, Sony has the most commitment to the switcher industry. Yes, GVG (or actually Thomson) is still a presence, but you'd have to be living in a cave not to know all the financial and political troubles that Thomson is going through. It's also no secret that Thomson is killing off virtually every product that the old Grass Valley used to make. Take the Zodiak.... it was very silently killed a few short months after the deal to buy GVG was done. Grass Valley routers are completey gone (they are all the Philips series) and it's also very well known that the Kayak is a slightly feature downgraded and re-branded Philips DD series (it IS called the Kayak-DD after all) and, short of the option of clear or colored buttons pretty much has nothing GVG on it at all. And, finally, we ALL know and hear the rumors that Kalypso will be gone by NAB...... I think Sony is the most stable switcher manufactuer out there now. They listen to what is asked for (maybe not implementing as fast as we would like) and I absolutely love the 8000A. I also think their support people are first class I caught a look at the new MTV Entertainment truck and the new NBC Sunday Football truck. These have to be two most impressive trucks I have seen, and they both have 8000A's. RE

I haven't seen the Kahuna but between the Kalypso and Sony, I prefer the Sony.