Machine Control on the Sony for running a Fast Forward is quite cumbersome. On NMT SBS-1, they originally had the FF running on Machine Control, and it was a big pain in the a**. As much as it sounds like it works well, when you've got 6 hours to build a show, do pre-pro, fax cameras, rehearse, and get a lunch break, it would really eat up almost an extra hour of build time. Plus clients would walk in with their hard drives and cueman for a lance controller and expect everything to be good. Eventually we got a Lance controller after much complaining, and instantly all TD's felt like they weren't trying to work with a cumbersome controller, typing in time codes, creating odd timelines to play, stop, cue, etc. The Z-ring doesn't have the same feel as the shuttle controller on a Lance, you don't get that magnetic stop at the middle & ends, and you don't have the easy display to tell how fast you are forwarding or rewinding. The Z-ring just spins, so you start out going too slow, and the next thing you know you are speeding well past what you were looking for, then you have to hunt for a pause button, or anything to stop it, by that time you are lost. The jog takes about a full spin just to go one frame. The machine control really eats up a lot of extra time. Basically, it was not worth the added features you can get with full machine control. One TD around the area was working on another truck that had the FF connected via Machine Control, and he specified that he would not work on the show unless he got a Lance controller for it... He got it. I have never seen the machine control connected to a Dveous, but sounds like the added features aren't worth the extra hassle that CPL makes easy. --- Dan

Thanks, everyone, for your help!

[quote="Bob Ennis"]Bill - . And yes, the Z-Ring is undoubtedly superior for jog & shuttle controls - I don't know if you'll ever see it on a Kalypso or similar T/GV product...from what I remember in our team meetings for the next-generation product, that was discussed, but ran into a roadblock because of patent infringements. By the way, is there any reason (besides cost) that one couldn't purchase the Z-Ring module (in the same way that some TD's purchase their own Lance Box) - carry it with you & connect it to any 8K or 9K so that you can put it where you want?[/quote] I thought that the joystick would be preferred for using with a DME, but I think the Z ring is ok with that and of course great with machine control. I can't believe there is a patent on what is basically a shuttle knob, weird. Imagine walking into a truck and asking the EIC for an extra LAN cable for the Z ring you bought with you.. that would get some great responses. Great idea though, maybe even better don't screw down the modules in trucks so you can move them around. Bill

Bill - If you'll ping me, I'll re-send that JPG...I can't seem to get attachments to work through e-mails in this forum. I agree that the 8K requires a little more user-involvement to set things up than the Kalypso...hopefully we can get that changed in future software revisions. And yes, the Z-Ring is undoubtedly superior for jog & shuttle controls - I don't know if you'll ever see it on a Kalypso or similar T/GV product...from what I remember in our team meetings for the next-generation product, that was discussed, but ran into a roadblock because of patent infringements. By the way, is there any reason (besides cost) that one couldn't purchase the Z-Ring module (in the same way that some TD's purchase their own Lance Box) - carry it with you & connect it to any 8K or 9K so that you can put it where you want?

[quote="Bob Ennis"]I sounds like the picture that you're talking about is the DME setup - I sent you another JPG just the other day - if you didn't get that one, let me know. And you're right - this machine / device control is (in my opinion) far superior to CPL.[/quote] I just updated my email from this forum yesterday I think. So if you could resend using this forum's email setup. That other address is now done.. Yes CPL is great, but this setup sounds a lot better. I have been working with the Kalypso's machine control lately and I like it a lot better then P-bus, lot easier to use and you don't need a device in the middle. I wish they had a Z ring on the Kalypso, holding down stop and transport buttons doesn't work that great. Otherwise I think I would use the machine control rather then a Lance if it was available.. also with an 8K I would have that Z ring closer to the user then a lot of people tend to set it up. Maybe even in a wedge just to the right of the end of the switcher, rather then leaning forward to use it. thanks Bill

I sounds like the picture that you're talking about is the DME setup - I sent you another JPG just the other day - if you didn't get that one, let me know. And you're right - this machine / device control is (in my opinion) far superior to CPL.

[quote="Bob Ennis"]Bill - The playing of the device without a keyframe is done through the CUEUP & PLAY menu. When using the extended VTR control, you can tell the "device" not only what effect (clip) to call up, but also tell it to go to a specific time code (1:00:00:00 being the start). For an effect that has 5 keyframes , each one second long (and thus is 4 seconds long), telling the device to cue to 1:00:03:00 would effectively be telling the DVE to cue up to keyframe 4 - along it can be made to cue up to any timecode in the effect, such as 1:00:02:15 - keyframe 3 1/2. By the way, Bill - did you ever get the picture that I sent?[/quote] So it's very much like any other machine control, except that it is a DVE...that gives you some good flexibilty, could save you from building multiple effects that maybe just do a reposition for a video box, maybe if there are like 4 different boxes, just do 4 keyframes.. Bob, I did get the picture (thought I replied back, sorry if I didn't). Very cool setup, if you have a place to post it, maybe a link in the photo section, sure others would get a kick out of that setup.. thanks Bill

Bill - The playing of the device without a keyframe is done through the CUEUP & PLAY menu. When using the extended VTR control, you can tell the "device" not only what effect (clip) to call up, but also tell it to go to a specific time code (1:00:00:00 being the start). For an effect that has 5 keyframes , each one second long (and thus is 4 seconds long), telling the device to cue to 1:00:03:00 would effectively be telling the DVE to cue up to keyframe 4 - along it can be made to cue up to any timecode in the effect, such as 1:00:02:15 - keyframe 3 1/2. By the way, Bill - did you ever get the picture that I sent?

[quote="Bob Ennis"]although I like to use the Timeline sub-menu, as this give you more control as to when to play the effect from within your timeline as well as more choices as to what the device will do. ...but being able to recall different DVE effects during a switcher timeline, cue them to something other than KF 1 & run them (frame-accurately - unlike PBus) forwards or backwards is really helpful.[/quote] I noticed the playing of the device without a keyframe during a demo, that makes sense that you can get some flexibility as to when you want to play it during the timeline. How do you call up a DVE effect to another keyframe, besides the first one? Bill

I use the extended VTR control on my 8000 in conjunction with the new SONY standalone DME's, and I works quite well with the DME's as it does with DVEous. From what I remember, you set up the port in the ENG SETUP menu / DCU / Serial Port Assign. Select EXTENDED VTR as the selection where the DVEous is attached to the DCU (don't forget to set the DVEous remote to A-53D Extended (or something like that). Then in the ENG SETUP / Panel / DCU Serial Port Assign, assign the DVEous as a device number. This gives you manual machine control over the DVEous in the Z-Ring area. It is also how you will address the DVEous when building effects. In the DEV menu / DDR/VTR, select the Device that is the DVEous - you can use the CUE-UP & Play sub-menu (the easier-to-use of the menus), although I like to use the Timeline sub-menu, as this give you more control as to when to play the effect from within your timeline as well as more choices as to what the device will do. If you 1st select FILE LIST, select the device that is the DVEous & have the switcher poll the DVEous, it'll learn what effects are active & which are empty...then select LOAD FILE & select the DVEous effect number you want to use. Going back to the TIMELINE Menu, you now can treat the DVEous just like a DDR - causing it to call up an effect, play, stop, re-cue, vari-speed play and such within your effects on a keyframe-by-keyframe basis. As I said, I use this with my 2 external DME's - it takes some getting used to, but it's a lot more flexible than the old CPL control, as the timeline of the DVEous doesn't HAVE to be tied directly to the timeline of the switcher, and can be started at any time during the switcher effect (not just at the beginning). I personally don't miss the "jog-all" functionality that CPL does provide, as I can fake it with switcher timeline & DME timeline jogs...but being able to recall different DVE effects during a switcher timeline, cue them to something other than KF 1 & run them (frame-accurately - unlike PBus) forwards or backwards is really helpful.

Extended VTR on the 8000 is also frame accurate, whereas P-Bus is not. That being said, I dont' know how to make it work.... sorry RE

I think there is also a better way to have the 8K talk to the DVEous rather then P-bus. Extended VTR or something. Gives you more of like a CPL type control. Also I know with device machine control, on the 8K you don't even need to have a run keyframe, if the clip is called up, and you hit run, it plays the device even without any kind of 'play 'trigger'. It may do the same with the DVEous, with this type of communication.. Bill

I don't have the menu's in front of me, so I'll do my best to remember them. Here's how I go about it..... Recall an empty register with P-bus enabled. Go to the devices menu where the P-bus control for the DVEous is. Recall the DVEous effect number you want to use on the DVEous control panel. In the switcher menu panel push the Rewind Action button on the touch screen. At or near the bottom a button called Direct Store will appear. Push this button and a keypad will pop up. Enter a number (easiest way is for this number to match your DVEous effect number). This is now the Recall Number that the switcher associates with the current DVEous effect. At this point, if you'll be using multiple DVE effects you can recall them 1 at a time on the DVE panel and do a Direct Store for each of them to a unique Direct Store number. When you are finished Direct Storing into the switcher you are ready to build your timeline. Recall the register on the switcher you want to use enabling P-bus and any other regions you need. In the device menu push the Rewind Action button. Set the Rewind Action as a Recall X where X is the DVEous effect number you wish to use. This will cause the DVE effect to be recalled every time the switcher effect is recalled (or the effect is rewound). Push Prev. to get back to the main device menu. If you want the effect to run immediately upon pushing the run button then set Trigger 1 here in the device menu and then insert a keyframe. If you do not want the effect to run immediately then insert your keyframes as needed on the switcher and then set Trigger 1 in the device menu on the keyframe where you want your DVE effect to run. HOpe this helps. --MIke