The TD forum is the one place where it should not only be allowed, but encouraged, to veer wildly off topic at every opportunity.

[quote="EricG"][quote="Scott S."]Guys still having problems with the star wipe on reply??? Every example on that website (above) had a star wipe, yet just see a disolve underneath. Scott S[/quote] I know for a fact if I was doing these games there'd be a dissolve underneath that move. Is it doable to have a star wipe timed with and sized with that replay move? Sure it is. Is it worth my time and energy to actually execute that so that other TD's with a Tivo can see that I did it? Yeah right.[/quote] Coolest part about having a star wipe underneath the DDR is when the DDR doesn't play for some reason you get to use a star wipe to replay. :) Almost as cool as the Yankee Classic game the other night on YES. Yankees vs Royals, 1976 ALCS. They used the square wipe to bring in Pete Rose in the upper left corner for a soundbite over a wide shot of the field. Pete even gave an honest answer of who he would like to play in the world series. Ok slightly off topic.

[quote="EricG"][quote="Scott S."]Guys still having problems with the star wipe on reply??? Every example on that website (above) had a star wipe, yet just see a disolve underneath. Scott S[/quote] I know for a fact if I was doing these games there'd be a dissolve underneath that move. Is it doable to have a star wipe timed with and sized with that replay move? Sure it is. Is it worth my time and energy to actually execute that so that other TD's with a Tivo can see that I did it? Yeah right.[/quote] Eric... Understand your position...Was just looking thru the pre-built efxs webpage and noticed it. Reminded me a bit like the Fox replay- (just a bit!) Thought someone said something in a earlier post about not getting these to match. On the otherhand... doing something like that would hopefully set me (you) apart from the others, hence maybe a few more jobs my (your) way. Happy Punching Scott S.

[quote="Scott S."]Guys still having problems with the star wipe on reply??? Every example on that website (above) had a star wipe, yet just see a disolve underneath. Scott S[/quote] I know for a fact if I was doing these games there'd be a dissolve underneath that move. Is it doable to have a star wipe timed with and sized with that replay move? Sure it is. Is it worth my time and energy to actually execute that so that other TD's with a Tivo can see that I did it? Yeah right.

It was under MakeMemo on the P/P bus... I put an event in the timeline that should have told it to reverse, but it just did it forward. Then I looked for the reverse button in the touch-screen menu, but it wasn't there...

When I said wipes, I meant animation transitions that look like wipes. That being said, were you doing the wipe with a MakeMEMO or EMEM? I would think that if you set up the wipe to be a Normal-Reverse that when a macro triggered a transition it would follow along the Normal-Reverse path. If not, then try editing the macro in Sidepanel and change the direction there. I really like the macro editor in side panel. I have only one question so far that is addressed in the GVG switcher board. I am only a newbie with this switcher, like so many, and am learning something new every time I sit down at it.

[quote="profromdover"]On the BTN trucks, what are they using for clip playback? How are you loading and triggering the clips? PBUS? The internal MediaPlayer? I work on a truck that has a Kayak, Stokes Productions from Nashville,and they have a Turbo for clips. I have found it real easy using the MediaPlayer and MakeMEMO to program the replay wipes and animation transitions, but have never used the PBUS/Lance in the truck. Anyone have some tips?[/quote] We're using an Abekas ClipStore with a Lance controller. It works like a Fast Forward, but you can put in your timeline which pbus register to recall and play. Jogging is a royal pain, though, because the timecode jumps back and forth about 5 or 6 frames as you move the knob. It's pretty easy to import the clip...they're sent on the x-file for the EVS, and it just gets played into the Clipstore. Of course, if you have a problem with the x-file (like we did the first weekend) you're in a bind, because they don't send a tape. Since you've done wipes, can you tell me how to reverse a wipe? I couldn't get it to reverse the star wipe under the replay...

[quote="EricG"]This may have been answered already in another thread, but I was just wondering, are these BTN games actually available to customers in HD if they have HD cable/DirecTV boxes?[/quote] Eric... My cablesystem is offering BTN in HD-box only... so yes. How many others I do not know. In fact I watched the BG - MSU game today (reply). I was there (as a fan - son goes there) and wanted to see a couple questionable calls. HD-wise thought everything look pretty good. Guys still having problems with the star wipe on reply??? Every example on that website (above) had a star wipe, yet just see a disolve underneath. Believe this was posted here last week. Scott S

On the BTN trucks, what are they using for clip playback? How are you loading and triggering the clips? PBUS? The internal MediaPlayer? I work on a truck that has a Kayak, Stokes Productions from Nashville,and they have a Turbo for clips. I have found it real easy using the MediaPlayer and MakeMEMO to program the replay wipes and animation transitions, but have never used the PBUS/Lance in the truck. Anyone have some tips?

Eric, from what I have read on the web, yes. Of course, local cable companies may not have the space for it, etc... DirecTV should have the HD channel in a bit.

This may have been answered already in another thread, but I was just wondering, are these BTN games actually available to customers in HD if they have HD cable/DirecTV boxes?

I think it should be pretty telling when a crewer puts out a request for BTN availability and says, "It's on a Kayak, rookies welcome." Quite honestly for someone that does this for a living, it's insulting for BTN to throw anyone in the chair.

I do not consider the Big Ten Network a "smaller start-up network", it's parents are rather wealthy. If you were talking about a local cable company or a small college I understand 100%. In the past I have cut games for the Devil rays on Game Creek Yankee Clipper and NCP IV, as well as various MTVG trucks. In fact this past weekend at Yankee Stadium, the Devil Rays were using NMT HD-3 as a subbed truck. They were in fact doing ONLY 4x3 shows.

MIke Cumbo, you said ESPN and Yes will not use the Kayak for their shows. That might be true but this truly gives smaller start-up networks the chance to do better shows than before. I can see away shows for teams like Tampa, Pttsburgh and of couse the Twins using MMT's newer trucks.

[quote="JohnHowardSC"]Just curious to see how the first weekend of BTN went for you guys? Anyone here do the Ap State / Michigan game?[/quote] Didn't do the AppState/Mich game...wish I had... As far as punching the show, it went pretty well. I have an issue with the clean feed I need to figure out, though. We were using Aux 13 to feed the DVCPro machines, and I configured the aux to use P/P CF, then used a substitution table, for that aux only, to replace ME1 with ME1CF and ME2 with ME2CF...but it didn't work. The only other issue I had was trying to get the star wipe underneath the "replay out" move to reverse. I fiddled with it for about an hour, and finally just did a 10 frame dissolve underneath all the replay moves. I've gotta say, though, once you have a few basic emems created, it's pretty easy to copy them to another register and edit them (macros too). It helps to have a graphical view of where everything is going. SOMETHING TO BEWARE OF ON TRUCK 18: The second button on the Program bus is EXTREMELY sensitive. If you map Cam 1 to it, know that the slightest brush against it will take it. I suggest moving cams down one button and avoid using it until it's fixed. A couple other buttons are more senstive than usual, but manageable.

[quote="XLNTeditor"][quote="Lou Delgresiano"]I guessed a while back that the trucks with the Kayaks will end up much like the HDNet truck with a Snell and Wilcox, where inexperienced users end up stealing a bastardized setup that lives on the truck built by one halfway competent TD.[/quote] That doesn't sound like a Kahuna. Irv[/quote] The S&W that HDNet had was an old first generation switcher. Think of an HD GVG 110 with internal DVE channels, some internal frame memory capabilities and some more inputs. It probably was a good edit room box, maybe good for cutting two or three camera studio shows but it was put into use in an area that it wasn't the best option. Not S&W's fault.

Just curious to see how the first weekend of BTN went for you guys? Anyone here do the Ap State / Michigan game?

[quote="Lou Delgresiano"]I guessed a while back that the trucks with the Kayaks will end up much like the HDNet truck with a Snell and Wilcox, where inexperienced users end up stealing a bastardized setup that lives on the truck built by one halfway competent TD.[/quote] That doesn't sound like a Kahuna. I recently got trained on it. Sure we only do studio stuff but it is so much better than our old 3000, I can't imagine anyone having a problem learning it. Most of our Gveous effects have been rebuilt using the Kahuna DVE with no problems and a few have been improved. I realize that we're not doing sports remotes but even the "button pushers" here are doing some nice things. The HDNet switcher must be an old Snell switcher. Irv

Here's a link for B10 football TD's that my chyron friend told me about. It has examples of many of the effects we have to load...

pony power, IF the truck is meant to be used by major networks, NBC/CBS/ESPN/etc then those mobile units will be equipped with switchers that are more widely accepted. I have stated that the Kayak is a good alternative IF the features fit the end user's needs HOWEVER I do not see Sunday Night Baseball on ESPN being switched on a Kayak in the near future. I also do not see YES Network changing their baseball show to use a Kayak. Right now, in the US, one company MTVG has adopted the Kayak for use in three units. (HDNet is a stepsister of MTVG and they also use a Kayak.)

The Kayak is a very inexpensive switcher so I think as more trucks are being built it will be a viable option for those that write the checks. Service Electric Cable owns 1 for their small truck, and they use all the same reply moves they use on the their Kalypso, in fact to those watching at home they can't tell if the show is done on a Kayak or Kalypso. So price will dictate when we see them not whether or not there are trained operators. If there is the chance to get trained take full advange of it. Get used to it "THE TIMES THEY ARE A CHANGING"

[quote="Mongo"]The BTN has had training throughout the midwest. I caught them in Indy because the crewing agent for that area told me about the training. BTW, I hear they really need TDs in the Chicago for Northwestern games. They're being crewed through Program Productions.[/quote] Good I hope they do, and I hope they have to pay a fortune to travel a TD because of MMT trying to save a few bucks by putting in an el-cheapo switcher. Same issue with the Sony 7k. They were warned on this.

The BTN has had training throughout the midwest. I caught them in Indy because the crewing agent for that area told me about the training. BTW, I hear they really need TDs in the Chicago for Northwestern games. They're being crewed through Program Productions.

Hi to all. In regards to the training, where are you finding information? I would be interested, but have not found any info on this. Thanks JC

"I guessed a while back that the trucks with the Kayaks will end up much like the HDNet truck with a Snell and Wilcox, where inexperienced users end up stealing a bastardized setup that lives on the truck built by one halfway competent TD." I disagree. I think once people start using the Kayak, they'll learn to make their own setups. Look, I understand the resistance to learning the Kayak. It's not quite as good as having a Kalypso (or maybe even a Zodiak), but it looks like Grass is going the direction of the Kayak. So if you want to continue working in the future, it's in your best interest to learn it, because no matter what TDs say about it, we're not the ones writing the check. That's why I jumped at the chance to get 2 free days of training, because you are going to start seeing more and more Kayaks on trucks. Just my $0.02...

I posted this in the GVG switcher forum in response to a BTN Kayak question, it's probabaly more appropriate here: I guessed a while back that the trucks with the Kayaks will end up much like the HDNet truck with a Snell and Wilcox, where inexperienced users end up stealing a bastardized setup that lives on the truck built by one halfway competent TD. No offense, but if we're asking to borrow set-ups should we really be switching on these things? The last thing in the world I would want is someone else's setup. What happens that first time you're painted into a corner, and if you didn't set it up how can you expect to know what's gone wrong. I'm just very leery of this Big Ten Network from them asking $1.10 per subscriber on BASIC cable, to their deal with Mountain Mobile, to having a Kayak be the switcher of choice, to their lineup of people from execs to production teams, to them suggesting to put students on camera. It's not what this industry needs, and it's scary to think other conferences will be motivated to start their own networks based on this one. They asked me about doing their weekly show and I turned them down. It sounds disasterous. The fact that they've had this last minute assembly of crew when everyone else had their football booked in May should be pretty telling. Good luck to those taking it.

Just got some training on the Kayak the past 2 days, and it's not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. It IS DIFFERENT, but I think I can make it do what I need. The only real issue I see is clean feed...depending on what they want. Otherwise, yes, programming emems is different, but in some ways much easier than Kalypso. Once you know what buttons to find things under, it's not bad at all. In fact, I would guess that if someone brand new (who is not a trained TD) came in and wanted to learn a switcher, the Kayak would be easier. One thing I don't care for is the way DPM effects are seperated from emems. BTN football does include set days. Others are single days. BTW, Tom Halladay did a helluva job training us switcher-monkeys!

[quote="Steve Meyer"]I don't have any direct experience with the ClipStore, but as with any file, it doesn't necessarily need to be downloaded from a server on the public Internet in order to FTP them to a ClipStore. What's wrong with putting these .mov files on a DVD or portable hard drive, and then FTPing them in locally? Would seem to make more sense...if I were to set up a tapeless system, that's what I'd do... I was approached for a football package for BTN, and it included a set day every week. I was also promised a Kalypso most of the time. Just FYI[/quote] Hi Steve: Yes you are correct it doesn't have to be FTPed, but it's FOX's thinking to go tapeless in the near future for FSN and FSN OTA shows as I mentioned. But your right, that is just one of the methods media could be delivered without tape. Glad to see your were promised a Kalypso .... lucky you. I feel for the guys who are the guinea pigs trying to make a switcher like the Kayak do a sports event on a set/shoot/strike. I'm sure it will become just like the duals, where production will want everything they are used to getting on a bigger switcher without the proper resources to do the job properly. I think the Kayak will come back to bite them especially without proper training which won't just be one day, but multiple days with it's unfriendly user interface. Thompson/Philips should take a lesson from the legacy Grass Valley products and make their menu structure, tranform engines and timelines more user friendly like the Kalypso. Right now, it's so convoluted to use multiple menus to program a simple effect! It's just not logical - ARE YOU LISTENING THERE IN GERMANY??? Please change it! It's not like you don't own the patents now!!!!! [quote="Mike Cumbo"]Rick, hope all is well. One thing I just thought of is that the BTN trucks are spec'ed to run WITHOUT a tape machine. Unless they add a VTR, the only option is to have someone put the elements onto an EVS, save to an X-File drive and then ship the drive to the AP. Makes me also wonder what happens if a web server is knocked off line or at the remote site you can't get a fast download.[/quote] Hi Mike ... yes all is well. Glad your were able to work that other thing out!! :-) Yes I see your point and I'm sure they thought of this. I seem to think they will need one tape machine onboard for highlights etc, but who knows. If they have to go tapeless then the Xfile and EVS will be the way they load the ClipStore. I don't think they will have a choice. Funny enough, I do that when I have to load elements into a ClipStore for MLB. I own my own Xfile drive with my MLB elements on them so that becomes an option at times. [quote="woobrd"]I was curious if any of the people on this string have or will be going to one of the Kayak training days.[/quote] Here in Florida they have only scheduled training for the Orlando/Tampa market TDs! South Florida is always thought of last for some reason. But in any event you won't learn it all in one day for the reasons stated above. Good luck!

I don't have any direct experience with the ClipStore, but as with any file, it doesn't necessarily need to be downloaded from a server on the public Internet in order to FTP them to a ClipStore. What's wrong with putting these .mov files on a DVD or portable hard drive, and then FTPing them in locally? Would seem to make more sense...if I were to set up a tapeless system, that's what I'd do... I was approached for a football package for BTN, and it included a set day every week. I was also promised a Kalypso most of the time. Just FYI

i got booked for set-up days for football. everything else are single days. Does anybody else have any 'practice' shows? Why aren't they training us (me) out here in PA? This is all part of the "Penn State doesn't belong in the B10" conspiracy. haha.

I was curious if any of the people on this string have or will be going to one of the Kayak training days. I will be at the one in Columbus this coming Sunday and wanted to see how they have been going. Thanks Brad

Rick, hope all is well. One thing I just thought of is that the BTN trucks are spec'ed to run WITHOUT a tape machine. Unless they add a VTR, the only option is to have someone put the elements onto an EVS, save to an X-File drive and then ship the drive to the AP. Makes me also wonder what happens if a web server is knocked off line or at the remote site you can't get a fast download. Could get ugly.

[quote="Mike Cumbo"]When we used 17HDX-S, one of the BTN trucks, we heard that there is a date coming up where they will try loading a Clipstore via ftp/ethernet. If they don't like the results you may either be using tape or they might have to travel drives.[/quote] The ftp of TD clips and elements is only something they are thinking about right now. In a perfect world it would be totally tapeless which does make a lot of sense. The system was tested and it worked perfectly well during that test, but in reality there are many factors that come into play with going that route. Firstly, you cannot import the same .mov files into a SpotBox or a Fast Forward so that is just one obstacle. Therefore, Lance Controllers will still be necessary. But then again this would only be for FSN and FSN OTA broadcasts which does include BTN. That being the case if BTN and FSN were to use a ftp site for elements then the ClipStore would have to be set up with a Directory structure. That uses .mov files which I mentioned in place of a tape for loading elements and then the .mov files become more manageable. FOX downloaded seven HD wipes and four HD promos in less than an hour, saved them to the ClipStore and built the EMEM and they were ready for air in less than 10 minutes. All great in a perfect world, but you can't do that everyweek and the majority of clips would already have to be loaded. It's great if you need to change something or something get updated by graphics, but in reality there are many stumbling blocks, so I'm sure tape is still the only option till they iron out the details.

When we used 17HDX-S, one of the BTN trucks, we heard that there is a date coming up where they will try loading a Clipstore via ftp/ethernet. If they don't like the results you may either be using tape or they might have to travel drives. John, the shows I was asked about doing were single day affairs. The list of football games I got all were listed as a single date as well. (If they were having a set day I would have hoped they would have included that in the dates needed.)

Hey guys, just out of curiosity - are these Big 10 shows of yours mostly single-day S/S/S across the board or will they have set days each week?

These trucks come in with DD mode as the default, and it sounds like they don't like switching to GVG mode. You can ask for it through your crewing agent beforehand. I've never used the Clipstore either, and I don't know if the effects reel will be on tape or individual files. I'm actually looking forward to using that... My first game is on Sept 1, but they're giving us a set day on Aug 31, which will be a huge help, but I'm glad I'm getting some training on the Kayak this week.

well, we have two productions this week that are 'practice' gigs (friday & saturday.) They're telling us they're not for air, no pressure, etc. We'll see about that. As far as training, I think I'm considered our 'expert' around here on the Kayak since I have one at my day job but I've never done anything as extensive as sports (with the Kayak.) I'm going to post another thread in the GVG and DD forums asking for Kayak sports help/advice so keep an eye out. I'm actually hoping somebody will be willing to share a configuration (hopefully I won't make anybody mad by asking!) Have you worked with an Abekas Clipstore at all?? If you haven't seen them, here are the truck details... Chris

I'll be working with the crewer for Indiana, Purdue, and Illinois. And with the Kayak, I'll need all the advice I can get... Is BTN giving you any training at PSU?