Element reels - timecode and reel layout
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Mon, 10/01/2007 - 15:24
I'm probably over-thinking the situation, but here's a dome-scratcher for everyone.
A director friend of mine is making up a basketball element reel for the upcoming CBB season. He gets random TDs in every market (some less than "A" rated), and wants to make things as trouble-free as possible for his TDs... and also wants to reduce his "hassle-factor".
He just asked me, "...would you rather have 1:00:30 be the frame of black before the first frame of the animation or the first frame of the animation?"
My response:
"Sure, make it the last frame of black (i.e., this is the "cue point") before video or audio. Good idea. Honestly, though, since timecode slips when elements are going in to a Fast Forward (FF issue, not an element reel or truck issue), it doesn't really matter much. And in a SpotBox (or any other EVS), it's trivially easy to restripe the timecode of a clip - so if wants the timecode a different way, he/she can customize it easily enough."
What do you all think? I realize that we're all probably from the camp that "as long as the animations aren't off by a field, we're OK with whatever the TC is and wherever they are on the reel". Even so, since he's taking the trouble to do this correctly from the beginning, I figured I'd ask what the consensus is.
Happy switching,
-Steve
Sat, 11/10/2007 - 22:39
#1
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If they have "less than A TD's" they probably get more Fast Forwards then Spotboxes. How about traveling a set of Fast Forward drives with a nice time code and perfect levels. It only has to be done once and then it's good. Of course, have the same thing on tape for backup.
Sat, 11/10/2007 - 20:44
#2
[quote="Mike Cumbo"]Silvio, what I meant was I don't care what time code number the element starts. Some people insist that the reel starts ONLY at 01:00:00.00 and nowhere else. For example, Saturday I had to re-load a clients drives, they wanted the original material left, at 01:00:00.00, I put the new stuff at 05:00:00.00. I could have put it at 02:32:15.12 and still been happy.[/quote]
Having been a tape operator for years, I absolutely agree. What's important is the log.
[quote]I agree an X at exactly 2 second or 2 frames, whatever is specified, is needed. However I would rather have proper levels and no X over an X and levels that bounce all over the scope. I don't want to have to change keyer settings with every timeline I build.[/quote]
Have you ever seen graphics designed for chroma keying, coming out from the same PC and the same operator, changing green hue and level from clip to clip?
Sat, 11/10/2007 - 20:37
#3
Silvio, what I meant was I don't care what time code number the element starts. Some people insist that the reel starts ONLY at 01:00:00.00 and nowhere else. For example, Saturday I had to re-load a clients drives, they wanted the original material left, at 01:00:00.00, I put the new stuff at 05:00:00.00. I could have put it at 02:32:15.12 and still been happy.
I agree an X at exactly 2 second or 2 frames, whatever is specified, is needed. However I would rather have proper levels and no X over an X and levels that bounce all over the scope. I don't want to have to change keyer settings with every timeline I build.
Sat, 11/10/2007 - 19:55
#4
[quote="Mike Cumbo"]Steve, I don't care what the start point is, as long as levels are right (ALL of them) and there is a good log of what is what.[/quote]
Sometimes I have to load a lot of wipes or effects into the Omega Deck, and it is very useful if the graphics department marks exactly the frame before the in point. Where I work, they make a white X (it looks like a picture start mark on film). In addition to a clear label, this speeds up acquisition.
Fri, 11/09/2007 - 09:37
#5
Of course I realize this post is probably way beyond the time from when Steve's friend asked him about building the CBB reel, but here's a few thoughts:
How about a few pages of slates at the front end of the element reel that is just cg text of the element log. Heck with CGs like Duets now being windows based, they can probably easily be copied/pasted off the original timecode log. So many times the element reels travel so much that logs get lost. Having a few slates that give you the timecodes on the tape guarantees that it can't get lost. Need to know where that efx that the director wants is, just go back to the slate past the bars say in the 59:00.00 area and there it is.
Another thing I can't stand is there's no need for 5secs pad between elements, they don't all have to happen in 5s. The way I clip them in, I'd like them one right after another without a lot of space in between to search through, yeah have necessary pad, but so few times am I actually dialing in timecode.
An additional thought....don't have EVS elements on a TD reel. There's always this issue with two people needing the same element reel for two different machines. If it's a must, then travel two reels, or have a five minute tape with the EVS only elements.
Mon, 10/01/2007 - 21:15
#6
Steve... I guess I'm a little less picky than Mike when it comes to what I'm looking for. My only real preference is that the levels are correct and that I get a cue sheet of all the ins and outs of all the clips with the correct corresponding time. Oh and accurate slates would be nice too :-)
I've run into situations where levels on the tape are off. Bars check out but my key signals are a nice shade of gray. I've also had times where the cue sheet doesn't even come close to matching up with what's on the tape. There's nothing I love more than burning 2 hours of building time going through elements with the director.
Eh, I'm just preaching to the choir. We've all dealt with that at some point.
Wait... actually... it looks like I'm a little more picky!
Mon, 10/01/2007 - 21:13
#7
I too don't care where a start point is. If the log is right that is all that matters. If Cueman is provided, then the elements should be stored in number ABOVE 100 so the TD can move things where they want their elements. For me it's sometimes just easier to injest the elements and run down the list. When we discussed the FOX NFL elements years ago, we originally wanted the slate then 3 frames of black before 1st video because of slipage on Profiles. That sort of got thrown out along the way some how and it is now slate, one frame of black and then the amination. I think for cueing purposes it is a good rule of thumb though (especially with Fast Forward's) to have another frame or so especially when you take in account that some guys will never check whether or not the FF is set to frame, Field 1 or Field 2 to begin with.
Mon, 10/01/2007 - 16:03
#8
Steve, I don't care what the start point is, as long as levels are right (ALL of them) and there is a good log of what is what.
Oh, one thing I ran into last year with a client, they had basically three looks, men's CBB, women's CBB and an OTA look where some transitions were slightly different then either the men's or women's elements. All three reels had the same timecode. I begged them to make men at say 1:00:00, women at 2:00:00 and OTA at 3:00:00.
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